Jehoiada the priest was a godly man who rescued Joash as a baby from death and raised him as his own under the instruction of God. What if by dying, they were actually saved from terrible atrocities later in life, caused by man and/or Satan? Its a pity you don’t have a local church, but it can be difficult to find the right church. Ahab. At that point, the churches will *have* to deal with the issue. Polygyny isn’t even mentioned at all in the passage. You have the bravado to compare the righteous men of the Bible with rebellious Cane the murderer of his righteous brother on account they married more than one wife legally and with Yahweh’s Blessing? Joseph Smith was married to his first wife Emma when he had the “hots” for the 16 year old maid in the house in which he had an affair with & got her pregnant. You will be able to ask questions, and be able to know for yourself what this is all about for today’s believer. A bisexual is a person attracted to both males and females for sexual encounters. It can also be said that it adds a bit of variety to the marriage, leaving people less bored, if they are the type to get bored. 329-330.) For me, that was church. Finally, we read in I Corinthians 11:9 (New Testament) women WERE created from men, for men! But still I’ve told him I’m gonna try as long as nothing would change like how he treat me and his love for me. The second half was having to do with society. Church is more about who is there than how it meets. A “Scripture alone” method of establishing doctrine all but requires us to accept polygyny as an acceptable practice. What if, through all of this, believers of Him were killed? (but I think YOU add… “also in the case of Abigail”) A leading Rabbi in the 11th century pushed for and got passed into Jewish law the edict that forbade Jewish men from having more than one wife. 2. Martin Luther, which the Bible-believing community owes a huge debt of gratitude to this day, said that he could not “forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict Scripture.”. 1 Corinthians 2:4-5 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that YOUR FAITH MIGHT NOT REST ON HUMAN WISDOM, One example is when they traveled to Egypt and Abraham wanted Sarah to lie about who she was and say that she’s Abraham’s sister so that they wouldn’t kill him and take Sarah for Pharaoh’s own (Gen 12:11-20). Thus a man COULD refuse his dead brother’s wife, but he was wrong to do so and he was publicly shamed for doing so. “Joash did what was right in the eyes of the Lord during the whole lifetime of Jehoiada the priest. Genesis narrates the creation of men and women before the narration of Adams marriage to Eve. Besides when was it that you ever saw one of these polygamists marry their brother’s wife ? Fascinating that no one took it that way until thousands of years later. They’re going to die anyway, remember. I cannot comment concerning ‘bisexual’ men, I only know one and he will not discuss the matter. I was. Have you believed that in you heart? They tell us that a man can never commit adultery unless he has sex with a married woman, so any single woman is “game” – but a woman is a harlot, or worse, an adultress, doomed to hell, no matter whom she has sex with if she is not married to the man in question. And it always works for me. (Unless you’re a Christian, in which case the only reason given for you to marry is if you can’t keep your pants on, but that’s another topic for another time. Once you have become one with someone, in His eyes (and He wrote the rules) you are no longer free to become one with another until your spouse dies. Agreed, if I worked simply for gain. That’s the revolution that needs to take place in America. You might as well be hollering at me from behind your steering wheel. Steve ( a new believer in Christ and our Creator, God). Nowhere. Keep in mind I dismiss far “bigger” scientific studies. Where did this idea come from that “you are no longer free” to become one with someone else? Most of the feminist groups are a bunch of lesbians, yes I said it. If they didn’t like it they would not be holding wedding showers and parties for the divorced entering into remarriage and calling adultery “Holy Matrimony”. For many, polygamy is associated with greater capacity for love and propensity of choice. And you’re right, Keturah came into the picture after Sarah’s death, but was it after Hagar’s also? Once again, we are left with the question of why God is creating people with the specific purpose of sending them to Hell? ‘Way after Sarah was dead? If a husband were owned by more than one wife, the ownership of him by those wives would be shared, common or joint ownership, as demonstrated by the term idios in 1 Corinthians 7:2. I understand the Scriptures more thoroughly. Obviously, things like the deity of Christ, the total depravity of man, the exclusivity of Christ as the means of salvation, those things are central. Do not trust in your own knowledge…your heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. 11 1 Chronicles 2:46-48 – Caleb had two concubines. Something in the neighborhood of a billion people believe that the Pope is the highest Christian authority alive today. In the same vein, you can be attracted to a woman but you need to keep this attraction in check unless she has consented to your attraction to her – even then holiness demands that the WORD of God reigns. You cannot serve two masters. Laban enforced a similar vow on Jacob, forcing him not to take other wives than his daughters (Genesis 31:50). My point, if you re-read it you will see it, was that they were ALL sinners. Hello, Are those single women to stay alone for the rest of their lives? Rick does not sin to be monogamous, and he has vowed TO be monogamous, so he remains, as an HONORABLE MAN, monogamous. Your rants mean nothing. The view on the Gifts is probably where I vary from my church the most (except polygyny of course). Read a little more of the word and learn before posting nonsense), WHY the Old Testament had its laws, and WHY those laws were done away with as a result of the 2nd Convenant. If they want to marry they can go on with their lives and marry and get another job. Do we really want a negative outcome on our heads? Vows are sacred and Scriptures teaches a man is bound to his vow (Numbers 30). Such is the problem with translating Hebrew to English. Actually, by and large it’s the opponents of polygyny who have hidden behind anonymity here and elsewhere. Remember the God makes no mistakes, thats the Christians way right, well if thats true, doesnt that mean that if god didn’t want those books found, then they wouldnt have been found? There are passages which deal directly with general polygyny — things like levirate marriage or not reducing the marital care given to a first wife if another is added — in the Scriptures, but these are largely ignored by monogamy-onlyists. 1TI 1:8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. As for the women, this is all I have to say: Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. Derek: The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple (open minded). Gen 11:29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram’s wife was Sarai; (and the name of Nahor’s wife, Milcah,) the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah. This multi-faceted nature of the law has also been recognised by the likes of Tertullian (160-220) and Justin Martyr (103-165). So thoughtful Rick. I’m just sayin’. It is better not to vow than to make a vow and not fulfill it. What if God knew they would be going to hell unless He had them killed at that point in their lives, so that they would be saved and go to stay with Him in all His glory? Being taken into a “chattel” societies city gates, then having your face spit in, and a shoe removed (attestation and insult) and it proclaimed that “this is done to the man that doesn’t raise up his brother’s house in Israel,” is not the equivalent of “Hey, whatever floats your boat.”. You have a wife. A better analogy would be that you wouldn’t send your son to do the dishes while you send your daughter to mow the lawn. :P. “”Need” is not an argument.” — Yes it is. I disagree that 1 Corinthians 7 precludes polygyny. Polygyny – If my Lord wants me to have more than one wife then it will be. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. And Ben-hadad the king of Syria gathered all his host together: and there were thirty and two kings with him, and horses, and chariots: and he went up and besieged Samaria, and warred against it. Just look at how yielded she was to God when Gabriel spoke to marry and said, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God” (Luke 1:30) and “you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. ii) None of the Apostles nor Jesus spoke against polygyny but rather against the evil of divorce ( I would be happy to take on anyone with fact that Jesus was against it – for starters – HE is the Alpha and Omega). “You can’t see me!” doesn’t make it so. I came across this thread which has been very interesting for me. Marta, Matthew 19 has nothing to do with polygyny, since if a man does not divorce, he does not incur the negatives cast by the rest of this passage. You are so real on the origin of feminism. It does no good to be honest and forthcoming with the dishonest. Here’s the commandment: “For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.” – Gen. 2:24, That is stated in the positive…”…a man shall…”, Fast forward to the New Testament: “And He answered and said, ‘Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning male and female, and said, “For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh”? God spared women that responsibility. For one thing, the Catholic Church does not forbid priests to marry. Marta… All one has to do is Google "Spurious scriptures in the King James Bible" and it will come up with a list of about 120 Spurious or incorrectly translated scriptures in the King James Bible. We don’t want our kids going out and cutting the lawn two days in a row, or washing dishes if we tell them to do the laundry. Polygamy is simply a consequence of original sin. Numbers 31:17-18 “…now therefore kill every male among the little ones and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. The answer was a lot simpler than the question, but it wasn’t an actual answer. otherwise obsol. What about today’s monogamous marriages? (I promise!) I admit that. Ephesians 5:22-33 - Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. Also, “I love you with all my heart.” Are you saying parents with more than one kid can’t say that to each kid as it would somehow be a lie? No wo=MAN, is a victim of polygamy, if she agrees to it, it’s NO ONES business! Thanks Hugh, “Jealousy and competition among co-wives, and an uneven distribution of household resources have been reported as problems among women in polygamous marriages (A1-Krenawi, 1998b; Al-Krenawi & Graham, 1999d; Borgerhoff-Mulder, 1992; Kilbride & Kilbride, 1990; Ware, 1979). Bible Characters, I could not give him a definite answer but I went back to scripture and the fact that the ‘wages of sin is death.’ The feminist women here spewing confusing rhetoric seem to let their emotions and not facts display. Thus saying “The two become ‘one flesh’ ” doesn’t do anything more than describe what inevitably happens. Many times they just ignore the questions (like has happened here). Polygyny is not commanded, it is permitted and regulated, just as slavery was. 2) What does your poor, lovely wife think? That’s quite an awkward jump from polygyny to some sort of homosexual group marriage. 15 If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Or concubines? I have got the understanding that I wanted, and it results in this; If, in the future, I was to fall in love with another woman who obviously loves the Lord and could bring more happiness and positive elements to mine and my wife’s lives, it seems that there would be a possibility that I could marry her with my wife’s consent. Most arguments boil down to “it’s illegal, so don’t do it.” That argument will soon be entirely null and void. So these folk will have polygamy in general “legalized.”, Once that happens, the floodgates will be opened for all of the godly men who have been afraid to practice polygyny for fear of state retribution or whatever. (What the Jewish rabbis turned it into is of little concern to me; there was a lot that was embellished in Judaism that isn’t “Sola Scriptura,” just as there is a lot within Christianity that has little to do with the Scriptures.). I know Baptist groups that have Calvinist members or leaders, is that a general problem or just one with a certain Baptist group. I have spare time because I don’t have more than one wife. Wouldn’t he be an illegitimate child, if polygamy was a sin? Rightly so. If you’re seriously reconsidering the Christian religion, read Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and listen to how hollow apologist arguments become when you bring it up. I ask you in the love of Christ to return to the church. that you will personally give an account to God for your decision? (Of course all of this is valid for people who call themselves Christians and believe in the Book). There is a god & there is a devil who wants to be “god”. However, when bringing up a subject like polygamy, it is difficult (if not impossible) for some to reason it purely based on scripture, without thinking about the impact it may have on society, health, and what have you. Open wide. You see, when you have the proof, conviction and FAITH that all of this is VERY real, including what those grumpy old men wrote with their grammatical errors etc. Hi Hugh, In any event, Abraham had at least three wives — two of which for certain were concurrent. He is known for his many wives. David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel; and they were also both of them his wives. There are clearer Scriptures, such as Mark 10:11, which says: And he said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her.”. Having said that…..our society as a whole does not readily accept a man taking two wives and most wives in general kind of freak at the idea. They had to get consent forms to be on television from the four members of the relationship and their son. I’m not sure what you’re talking about, Damian, nor am I entirely certain what position you take — are you a friend of polygyny or not? (It is no trouble for me to mention them again since they are vital to this discussion.). WHAT IS MORAL LAW? Neither can you love each one particularly as Christ loved the Church. Rick, Those things which you mention fall into the two fulfilled aspects of the Law, and so no, we do not observe those things today. So instead of hiding to visit prostitutes or use porn etc men take on more women. Not a good example. They become Sisters, People, not objects. BF has the site, the forums, the fellowship, etc. You are certainly free to live in the light of that interpretation yourself, but really, this is an “I dunk, you sprinkle” argument at best, and you, like all intolerable busybodies, want to peer in my bedroom to see how I’m working out my salvation. But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.”. Amid All the Wives of David in the Bible 3 Stand Out . I haven’t read all the comments, but if “uppity” is against polygamy, I would love to read answers to verses that are showing polygamy, right now the intelligent, logical, side of the conversation is for polygamy, the other side unfortunately is just a large amount of random thoughts with verses quoted out of context. I would like to join for a while and add some of my own insight into these matters. Indeed, they are more precious than gold, whereas ours are utterly worthless, of less value than a used menstruation cloth (or “filthy rag” as the King James Version renders it). Have you declared that with your mouth? I can only stand firm on what I believe the Bible teaches on every issue which I have had opportunity to learn. Judging an ideology by the abuses thereof is by no means a sound method of reasoning. Correction “If a husband divorces a wife” should have read, “If a husband unjustly divorces a wife”. as they want. One could also make an argument about men having to marry his brother’s wife, should the brother die, but I’m not too sure on the exact wording of that statement in the books. some polygyny advocates point out that there is a translational point in the passage, God Himself is described as being in a polygynist relationship, http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695274226,00.html, Jesus’ teachings regarding lust and adultery, http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/moreboys.htm, https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/1?lang=eng, A Baptism of Repentance for the Remission of Sins, Bible Verse that Says God Will Never Give Us More Than We Can Handle, KJV 1611 vs. KJV 1769: The KJV-onlyist’s Dilemma, Jude, a Servant of Jesus Christ (Jude 1 Commentary), OpenHook, The Best Customization Manager Plugin for WordPress, Holy Polygamy: Men of the Bible with Multiple Wives, Kim Clement, False Prophets, and the Value of Truth, How to Add a Site Name Shortcode to WordPress, Are All Sins Forgivable? Just my 50 cents. But saying that, it would still be interesting to see the views of the commentors in this thread (be them for or against polygyny). Don’t use my “What ifs?” to TRY and justify your opinion, use something better will you? so if i get married in sept. i took to myself a wife. It’s exactly that sort of “church” that I get from conversations with men like Shawn McGrath and Glen Harnish and Hugh McBryde. How many commandments were violated here ? How would my Wife who has also recently found faith in God react? In cases of religious matters, we are supposed to have, in North America, a separation of church and state. Most believe he means if a man’s wife commits fornication he can dump her and remarry. (until he married more). This means they aren’t as limited in their choice of sexual/romantic partners. To Derek, Bill M: Ruth’s humility and servanthood attitude must have made her an excellent wife. Romans 15:4 For EVERYTHING that was written in the past WAS WRITTEN TO TEACH US, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope. I owe God my repentance. Polygyny is a hold over from a day and an age where. It does say “flesh”. You neglect to emphasize that it was Sarah’s idea. Why not polygyny? He was simply a carpenter’s son from Nazareth. No great surprise there! A UNESCO study has also shown that 87% of couples in Cameroon admitted having problems of conjugal rape and 97% of these families were in monogamous marriages. This passage is not saying “Milcah was the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah” as this would not make sense to write it this way. The latter school of thought makes the levirate marriage Law make no sense, if the Law of God is supposed to be holy. If you are a child of God, you will be disciplined to bring you to repentance. (Matthew 9:1, The Scriptures), For Yahushua Himself witnessed that a prophet is without appreciation in his own [idios] country. Google wants to give me information on Islam, so that’s what a lot of my results are. Do not think the freedom of the WORD of God has been delivered peacebly down through out the ages; some men and women have laid down their lives just to make sure the WORD, the TRUTH was know; at times it took generations to accept this WORD, many times after they were long gone. JAS 1: 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. When you make a comment such as “idiotic dogma of the Bible, etc. As slaves to a master. Think of the widower who remarries or the widow who remarries. You keep confusing the concept of “one flesh” with monogamy. Since you seem to have such an interest in antiquated Old Testament regulations, perhaps you should weigh in on another permitted, but regulated Old Testament institution – SLAVERY. I cannot think of a modern day motive that would make it pure, and I highly doubt if there are those today who are kings and need to marry for an alliance, or someone who consummated a marriage with the wrong bride, or have fought a battle in such a manner as to be rewarded with multiple women. Ontop of all of this. When God set up the temple, he never instructed the playing of musical instruments. If people cannot find a biblical argument against polygamy then don’t they dare condemn the idea of polyandry. He has no pleasure in fools; fulfill your vow. First of all thanks for the good work. Unbelievers don’t care what God’s Word says and Christians interpret it to suit their beliefs. So what was the purpose of this discourse in the first place ? i should get back to the whole poly talk i guess huh. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. Thanks man. He loved this girl & did not love his wife but divorce was not an option under the Roman Catholic rule so he goes to Luther to get approval for his actions . On the understanding that my first wife would always be the most important in my life and that my second wife would be totally understanding of this, would make every effort to be a loving sister in Christ to her, and would not be a hindrance to our God loving family. The erroneous belief that Sarai was Abraham’s sister is not based on this record but on the words that came out of Abraham’s mouth later when he was in fear of his life. She should build up your house, not destroy it. According to the Bible, we have an awareness of God’s moral laws written on our hearts (e.g. The Scriptures do not tell us anyone is evil who has two wives or that someone is holier if he has only one. One country after another began outlawing multiple wives. This simply proves that you are a normal man. With that logic, should men have sex with their daughters like Lot did? You interpret wrongly the parable of the bridesgroom and 10 virgins. It is interesting to see how some people try to explain that one. Paul: And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”. You can not love Jesus and hate the Word because they are one and the same. He is our only hope, and there is nothing we can do to save ourselves. Not very “equal” for the man, correct? Romes? Yahweh’s ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts. Read them in the archive below. and i honestly think that is why there has been a quite a few more gospals found in the last few years. Regarding God being just while ordering those “atrocities,” when you have a full understanding of just how sinful mankind is, then you can ask that question. The other day though, I felt very attracted to a young woman on the bus, first time for quite some time, I started glancing more often and was wondering a lot about this person. I’ll bet if you were God, you would have made sure this anti-second wife law was spelled out in such a way that there would have been no doubt in anyone’s mind, eh? I actually agree with you about the last point, at least so far as man has little if anything to do with it and the Earth has natural, and somewhat random, climatic variations. You can’t ignore that by quoting a verse which deals with a completely different aspect of the subject. well-reasoned and well-researched justification. Does the Bible allo…, Adding a Website Snapshot Shortcode to WordPress. “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matthew 18:3-6 ESV). That is the only instance where it was a command. Answer: King David had many wives, according to the Bible, although only eight of them are named. When determining whether something is a sin or not, we turn first to the Law of God which not only does not forbid polygyny but positively accounts for it — and in the case of Levirate marriages, may very well mandate polygynous marriages in certain circumstances. I want to finish Dialogue and memorize a few verses it quotes and then give it to a certain girl since its technical enough to address all the main points but its short enough that someone would have time to read it even if polygamy wasn’t their main thing. Jesus had no authority to try anyone. Divorced more. People put to much emphasis on Jesus pbuh when they should be putting their faith in Elah/God who he called upon who sent Jesus pbuh as a messenger and prophet. I may not think it is a good thing, but I do think you are right in your premise. least. Obviously, I don’t think that fictional characters owe me anything, nor do I deserve anything from them. What about not eating pork and other kinds of meat? Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.”. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 3 Leviticus 20:14 – Prevents a man from marrying a woman and her mother at the same time. I don’t care about any of those teachings, nor do I care how many people you can point to and say, “See, see, I’m right!”. They would not have confused his words to mean that they could never desire anyone other than their one wife. This is what I think Paul means when he says to both “submit to one another” and “wives, submit to your husbands” in Ephesians 5:21-22. And, per usual, without any scripture supporting the assumption that Rick is a heretic, no reasoning, no proof, and not a shred or hint at exactly what makes his views heretical. Not become a stumbling block to the question to a city with a fundamentalist s standards! This organization forms to be “ God is taking away the foreign wives ( polygyny ) than additional wives be... & 13:14 – Elkanah a Levite, has two wives for him it is that. And involved a polygyny/polyandry group situation with Scripture but it is unclean t bad doing thousands. 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